Is Methos... evil?

[Andrew NDB]

What do you think? Is Methos just biding his time, pretending to be Duncan's buddy until Duncan takes out the strongest Immortals, then he'll chop off Duncan's head in his sleep? Is he truly a reformed Immortal, no evil or secret agenda inside since his days of being Death of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?

[Nicholas Ward]

Sociopath.

Basically neutral, he's only interested in his own benefits. Evil or good doesn't mean much to him, he can be either as long as it serves his own interests.

[Aleander]

Interesting choice, Nicholas.

Yeah, it makes sense. Anyone after 5000 years has got to be a little bit insane. I mean, you HAVE lived forever.

[Andrew NDB]

He does lie, even in the present. Early in the show he told Duncan he had amnesia about his earliest years and has no idea how old he is. Yet much later in "Reunion," Methos is able to rattle off his exact age to Joe: 5,127 years of age, or whatever.

[Aleander]

I don't think he was lying. I genuinely believe he doesn't remember his very early past. Why should he?

[Midnight Rambler]

He can go either way. It's all an means to end.

[Coolwater]

I don't think Methos is evil or sociopathic. I think he's self-protective. He wasn't happy as a Horseman, but had no way to get out of it safely, so he did evil things, but as little as possible. And I think he wants friends, but people die young and immortals often kill one another, so he approaches Duncan and Amanda and Joe very cautiously. I think he is inclined to be cynical, but the fact that he does make friends with them, means he isn't fundamentally so.

[dubiousbystander]

I think he was perfectly happy as a Horseman, at first. He was sure on a high when he took Cassandra, giddy with delight, I felt. However, he was losing his enthusiasm for raiding what with making of the camp a home, because he had her. My belief is that he didn't know he was trapped until Kronos got angry and took Cassandra away from him.

[Coolwater]

Could be!

[Saber Dog]

In AD&D terms, I think he's chaotic neutral. I think he has long term goals, but they are secondary to his survival most of the time. When he fights or duels he uses only as much skill as he needs to. We really don't know how good he is.

[Nicholas Ward]

In AD&D terms, I think he's chaotic neutral. I think he has long term goals, but they are secondary to his survival most of the time. When he fights or duels he uses only as much skill as he needs to. We really don't know how good he is.

Wouldn't that be an extremely risky strategy and contradict with his intention to survive? He has no way of knowing how much skill he needs each time.

[Saber Dog]

It would if he had to lock in a skill level before the fight. I think his studies of other immortals gives him a good idea of their skill level and he's flexible enough to adjust during a fight. He does not want to give away his real skill level and does not want to be a tempting target.If you watch his fight with Kristen Giles he's not using much skill, although he does lure her into an attack, compared to his duel with Duncan, which he may have "lost" on purpose. What we haven't seen is him making a sneak attack, probably because it would go too far and make him less likable. But I could imagine him suddenly going to a combative draw in the midst of a pleasant chat if he needed to do so to win.

[Andrew NDB]

What we haven't seen is him making a sneak attack, probably because it would go too far and make him less likable. But I could imagine him suddenly going to a combative draw in the midst of a pleasant chat if he needed to do so to win.

Sort of like FAKE Methos did in "Not to Be." He's probably got that in him, almost undoubtedly.

[Ceridwen]

Very philosophical question. A man of 5,000+ years, is that still even a man as we understand men? Is he 'just a guy?' (And no, I thought his rattling off of a specific age was clearly a joke, not anything he actually has a handle on. Do you remember the details of when you were 3? He has less reason or ability to than someone of 30 or 40 to remember that far back.)
Evil isn't something one is, evil is what one does. So no, he isn't evil, but he damn well has done evil. Considering who and what he is and how long he's been at it and still keeps himself alive it would be inconceivable that he hadn't done evil.
So has Darius, probably even more than Methos, but in his last decades would any one (excepting a Hunter) call him Evil? Doubt it. Bet there would have been numerous people to call him so during his heyday as a war lord though.
So as to the philosophy, Evil does not love, and it was made very clear in the episode Timeless that he was more than capable of love, in fact, even though you only saw Alexa Bond that one time, his great love for her colored the entire season. That's not to say he isn't capable of doing evil still, he is, but it's all about choice. Kronos chose to hang onto evil as his tool for control, nothing like a few evil deeds for getting folks to fear you and do what you want when you want.
The short answer; that would be a straight no. He's far too complex a creature for one word definitions. Probably the most interesting character the writers ever came up with.

[dubiousbystander]

A character in one of my fanfics always says "A thousand," when asked his age. He's probably been saying that since he was 200.

[Haplo]

Evil isn't something one is, evil is what one does.

That sums up why I voted for him being evil in the past but not anymore. Even the saintly Darius we got to know was still capable of being evil if he chose. Methos is like any predator. He does what he has to to survive. Sometimes the best way to survive is to be passive and not draw attention to yourself. Other times it's to go on the offensive.

[Andrew NDB]

But what happens, hypothetically, when it comes down to just Methos, Duncan, and one or two others? Does Methos just shrug and drink a beer... or does he make a move?

[Nicholas Ward]

He probably would take out one of the others to level the playing field and stay with Duncan for the semi-final and be there when either Duncan or the other guy wins.

[dubiousbystander]

According to the story made by the Big Finish guys, Methos' response to learning about the Prize upon taking his first Quickening (cough cough) was to the effect of: "Grow old and die? Oh, Hell no!" I think if Methos is amongst the last, he'll make certain there never is a last. Hahaah! "Who wants to live forever? ME!"

[Haplo]

And with just two remaining they should be able to hide among us normals

[Ceridwen]

On the old board I wrote a short story to that effect - Methos played the long game so that only he and MacLeod survived, then they agree to leave each other alone - forever.

[dubiousbystander]

But I still like to postulate that The Source appeared (or the Great Disaster of the cartoon) because the Gathering was stalled.

[Darth Reaper]

But I Still Like to postulate that The Source appeared (or the Great Disaster of the cartoon) because the Gathering was stalled.- dubiousbystander

And, that's a possibility. Fate may make the final decision for all of them. Ramirez suggested that they would feel an irresistible pull towards a faraway land to do battle for The Prize. Maybe they won't be able to control themselves at that point. The need to finish it will be overpowering.

[Andrew NDB]

And, that's a possibility. Fate may make the final decision for all of them. Ramirez suggested that they would feel an irresistible pull towards a faraway land to do battle for The Prize. Maybe they won't be able to control themselves at that point. The need to finish it will be overpowering.

I wonder how that works in actual practice. Like, would it be, "Feel... irresistible... urge to take a vacation to Mumbai. Must... Google... things to do."

[MidnightBlue]

Neutral Neutral

[johnnybear]

I agree about Methos thinking the prize might not be for him but that he'll try to survive for as long as possible and have a good time!
JB

[Darth Reaper]

I wonder how that works in actual practice. Like, would it be, "Feel... irresistible... urge to take a vacation to Mumbai. Must... Google... things to do."

Why didn't I respond to this sooner?

Anyway, I guess I tend to think of it as a form of mind control. The idea is in their heads and they instinctively pursue it. It's like they're programmed to do it and they cannot resist the program.

[Darth Reaper]

Regarding Methos, I would say that he isn't evil. In fact, I would say that he's a pretty good guy, maybe more so than he'd like to admit. Part of him wants to be the consummate pragmatist, because he wants to survive, and that's natural. But, I think there may be a part of him, perhaps deep down, that wants to be a better man than he has been. He looks at someone like Duncan Macleod, who strives to live by his convictions even when it's hard, and he can't help but respect it, even if it also frustrates him. I think that may be one of the reasons that he continues to stick with Duncan.

Of course, Methos' ideas about right and wrong may not be exactly the same as Duncan's, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have them.

If Methos were truly a sociopath I don't think that he would regret his history with Cassandra, and he clearly does. He may try to justify his actions to both others and himself, but I think he wishes that he could have acted differently.

[dubiousbystander]

Regarding Methos, I would say that he isn't evil. In fact, I would say that he's a pretty good guy, maybe more so than he'd like to admit. Part of him wants to be the consummate pragmatist, because he wants to survive, and that's natural. But, I think there may be a part of him, perhaps deep down, that wants to be a better man than he has been. He looks at someone like Duncan Macleod, who strives to live by his convictions even when it's hard, and he can't help but respect it, even if it also frustrates him. I think that may be one of the reasons that he continues to stick with Duncan.

Of course, Methos' ideas about right and wrong may not be exactly the same as Duncan's, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have them.

If Methos were truly a sociopath I don't think that he would regret his history with Cassandra, and he clearly does. He may try to justify his actions to both others and himself, but I think he wishes that he could have acted differently.

I do like that. I'm a fairly straight-forward person myself, and I like some of that in my stories. I don't want to find out that actually he remembers perfectly well his life before first death. I find the other way to be much better and it also allows for the possibility of any range of time between when his Immortality was set off and when he took his first head.

His penchant to want to help fragile ladies is a mix of good and bad, and I can view it as an effort to make up for Cassandra, and all the other helpless victims he regrets, whatever portion of that thousand regrets they may be.