Joe Dawson is a pre-immortal

[Nicholas Ward]

Considering the effort Andrew Cord took for saving Joe is a very special case. After all, for an immortal who was in war for a large part of his life, cynical as he was, it would have made more sense for Cord to let Joe perish and move on. But he made the heroic effort to save Joe against all odds.

I think he expected Joe to die and intended to take him in as his student. But Joe survived and was recruited within the Watchers.

[Andrew NDB]

Considering the effort Andrew Cord took for saving Joe is a very special case. After all, for an immortal who was in war for a large part of his life, cynical as he was, it would have made more sense for Cord to let Joe perish and move on. But he made the heroic effort to save Joe against all odds.

I think he expected Joe to die and intended to take him in as his student. But Joe survived and was recruited within the Watchers.

That's possible. And imagine the after-the-end-credits scene we could have had in "The Source"...

* Joe bursts through the mound of dirt, coughing *

Looks around, looks at where he'd been stabbed. Picks up the hilt of Duncan's katana, throws it aside.

JOE: You have GOT to be shitting me!!!

[Nicholas Ward]

Ha! And they buried him because the mortality curse of being in the vicinity of the Source would apply to him too but he was killed on holy ground...

Still i'd like to see the scene.

[dubiousbystander]

But they weren't in the vicinity of the Source yet... Also, Joe is a father. I wonder what happened to her in The Source reality.

[mathpiglet]

But they weren't in the vicinity of the Source yet... Also, Joe is a father. I wonder what happened to her in The Source reality.

Not only is Joe a father, but he has no legs. How long would he last as an immortal? He'd have to live on Holy Ground.

[Nicholas Ward]

Maybe his wife cheated

He knows all there is to know about immortals, I doubt he'd stay on holy ground.
I wonder if he would want to experience a Quickening or ask Duncan or Methos to take his. And would they comply?

Also he is fairly proficient with a gun, he could do about as well or better than Lord Byron

[dubiousbystander]

Maybe his wife cheated

Hahahah I know it is a season 6 episode, but it was actually someone else's wife who cheated... with Joe. You know, that episode I like to joke was a teaser for the Methos & Joe show.

[Coolwater]

I've noticed that lots of us want everyone to be an immortal. That would take away from a lot of good plots.

[dubiousbystander]

And want out of "There can be only one," Drives me up the wall. Unless you come up with something really good, I object to tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Colleengael]

I could see him opening a series of Blues Clubs around the world all located on holy ground like Amanda's Sanctuary Club with apartments on the premises. He has enough immortal friends to travel with him as extra protection. We know he has no problem shooting an Immortal if needed to give himself time to leave.

If he provided a safe place for immortals to hang out without having to worry about the Game... he might be left alone.

[Coolwater]

Yeah, I've always wondered why more immortals didn't create holy ground enclaves. The only reason I can think of is if you argue that Ims are compelled to fight one another, and I've never bought that.

[Colleengael]

We know that Emrys, Darius, Kalas, Brother Paul, Rebecca, Kim Sung, Korda, Father Liam, Amanda, Duncan, Connor and even Methos have all spent time hanging out on holy ground at some time or another. Even Michelle was sent to a convent to train.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I've always wondered why more immortals didn't create holy ground enclaves. The only reason I can think of is if you argue that Ims are compelled to fight one another, and I've never bought that.

There's definitely something going on during a Buzz, but I don't buy into the Immortals actually feeling an inner craving to behead each other.

[Aleander]

It always seemed to me like that was the implication, though. That they had to kill one another. It was the whole point of "The Messenger" even.

[Andrew NDB]

It always seemed to me like that was the implication, though. That they had to kill one another.

That's certainly what they've been telling each other for millennia, at least.

[Aleander]

"Element of Fire" certainly builds Duncan's characterization as such. It starts with him defying the Game and the reason for thei existence within it, and ends up, with Khordas' death, embracing and reconciling himself with it. He's an Immortal who has to kill other Immortals.

[Coolwater]

*shrugs* How many of us have done things because we thought we were supposed to or because it was "in our natures?" Don't we all know at least one woman who persists in keeping children she doesn't want because she believes she should want them? When in fact she and the kids would be happier if she gave them to someone who genuinely loves children? And I know several people who repeatedly ruin relationships because they see themselves as wicked, undeserving people. Expectations and personal myths can be as powerfully influential as reality.

[Aleander]

That isn't the case with Immortals. How many times has Duncan said "its what we do?" The show never really argued whether the Game was a hoax or not - it was real, through and through.

[Nicholas Ward]

It is unlikely Duncan is talking on behalf of the immortals residing within him or uses the majestic plural for just that situation.
Also if the Game would be a lie, what would the purpose of the Quickening be?

[dubiousbystander]

That's one I always raise. Story-wise the Quickening DOES transfer, and the winner DOES gain power, skills (that may remain fallow) and so on from it, though they do not consciously gain the memory. Implied with the original story, you don't know everything unless you're the last. However, I can consent that perhaps there doesn't have to be only One.

[Nicholas Ward]

That's one I always raise. Story-wise the Quickening DOES transfer, and the winner DOES gain power, skills (that may remain fallow) and so on from it, though they do not consciously gain the memory. Implied with the original story, you don't know everything unless you're the last. However, I can consent that perhaps there doesn't have to be only One.

That would make for an interesting immortal. One who seeks to defeat specific targets in order to access their gained knowledge. Did Kane find a way to complete his training before he took Nakano's head?

HL-TAS somewhat expanded on this topic as well although Quentin's never showed any comprehension of the Quickenings he gained.

[Nicholas Ward]

I could see him opening a series of Blues Clubs around the world all located on holy ground like Amanda's Sanctuary Club with apartments on the premises. He has enough immortal friends to travel with him as extra protection. We know he has no problem shooting an Immortal if needed to give himself time to leave.

If he provided a safe place for immortals to hang out without having to worry about the Game... he might be left alone.

There would always be hunters. But yeah, he would fit the role of all knowing (bar)keeper of secrets.

[Ceridwen]

* Joe bursts through the mound of dirt, coughing *

Looks around, looks at where he'd been stabbed. Picks up the hilt of Duncan's katana, throws it aside.

JOE: You have GOT to be shitting me!!!

Now that's funny.

But no, don't buy it. Sometimes, you just make a connection with a person, even someone like Cord - probably especially someone like Cord. He had this boy scout, Joe, who he knew was 100% trustworthy, how often does some one like that pop up in his world?

As for the enclave on Holy Ground, had that with Brother Paul during the Kalas cycle. He established that monastery primarily for the aid and comfort of immortals who needed to get away from it all.

And the buzz, the producers actually said it was nothing more than a heads up; just something to let one immortal know other immortals are nearby. But I do remember reading a fan fic online about a scary story Methos once told about how immortals killed each other because all immortals are blessed/cursed with a fragment of a demon/deity's soul, one who had gotten too powerful and was shattered - the "there can be only one" thing is all the bits of the soul trying to reconstitute - good story, complete blather, but a good story.

[Andrew NDB]

And the buzz, the producers actually said it was nothing more than a heads up; just something to let one immortal know other immortals are nearby.

It's definitely conveyed as more specific than that. I mean, we've seen Immortals feel a Buzz in a crowd, and during the course of the Buzz their eyes/glances zero in on each other.

[Ceridwen]

My point being they don't get detail from it, not even to the point of knowing whose buzz it is. For instance in the series when Methos comes to the barge after Joe got kidnapped but only close enough to trigger the buzz, Mac had no idea who it was who was outside or that he'd met him before, or that his buzz was really old. Just that another immortal was in proximity, even if out of sight. That's all.

Is it ever made clear if ALL immortals can spot a latent immortal?

[Andrew NDB]

My point being they don't get detail from it, not even to the point of knowing whose buzz it is. For instance in the series when Methos comes to the barge after Joe got kidnapped but only close enough to trigger the buzz, Mac had no idea who it was who was outside or that he'd met him before, or that his buzz was really old. Just that another immortal was in proximity, even if out of sight. That's all.

True. My point was that it does, at least, directionally tell them where the other Immortal is, even if it doesn't tell them anything about who it is.

Is it ever made clear if ALL immortals can spot a latent immortal?

A pre-Immortal? It's not really made clear, though the general thinking is that only Immortals with finely attuned I-Dars can detect them at all.

[dubiousbystander]

A pre-Immortal? It's not really made clear, though the general thinking is that only Immortals with finely attuned I-Dars can detect them at all.

I rather wondered if Byron could not detect them, and kept trying to get himself a student of his own creative ilk. But then, that's rather too positive, eh?

[Nicholas Ward]

I rather wondered if Byron could not detect them, and kept trying to get himself a student of his own creative ilk. But then, that's rather too positive, eh?

Lord Byron seeking a student to pass the torch? I like that theory.